Manz-Grover

Red Spangle Hen #712-11 from my stock loft
A tremendous deep roller and high and long flier

My primary family of North American Highflying Rollers is the Les Manz Strain that was maintained by the late Chandler B. Grover of Elk Grove, California.

In early 1988, Chan Grover, who was then already getting up in his years, sent the last of his Les Manz strain to K.D. Spurling, who at that time was still a young gun in pigeons, but had already been making a name for himself in because even by time he was 13 or 14 years old he had been flying some pretty good kits of rollers and was already showing himself to be a much better kit handler than a lot of very experienced hands even though he was still regarded as "a kid". He also had some nice show pigeons. I knew him quite well even at the time, and he was already pretty knowledgeable about Rollers simply because he was pretty obsessed with them and he seemed to spend his every waking hour either working with them or studying them. Because of that, a lot of old timers took him under their wing. Chan Grover was just one of those old timers and he entrusted him with all the rollers he had that had originated from his own mentor, Lester J. Manz of Riverside, New Jersey who was a prominent breeder in the 1930's. As the story was told to me at the time, Dan Ouellette was actually the one who picked up the birds from Grover and brought them up to Oregon. The stud consisted of a dozen or so pairs of birds, including four "special pairs" of old stock birds that included the last living bird actually bred by Les Manz, as well as several other oldsters that were first generation from Manz. They came in four colors: Recessive Reds, Recessive Yellows, Blacks and Duns. Most of them were very flashily marked, except one yellow hen, #1313-78, which had only a white flight or two and according to Chan Grover was the best stock bird in the bunch. Later on, he also got two pair of yellows from an uncle of the Ouellette Bros. These were grandchildren of the old 1313-78 hen, and apart from one of the cocks, were yellow selfs.

Recessive Red Oddwing cock #004-12
A son of #712-11 and an outstanding stock cock

Over the next few years, Spurling pretty much phased out everything that didn't come down from the 1313 hen and and he built a closely linebred family around them that were exclusively Recessive Reds and Recessive Yellows. Apart from the fact that they either had a lot of white or tended to be selfs, save a white flight or two like the old hen, if you saw one, you had seen them all because they were pretty uniform in type and size. I had later asked Chan Grover what he thought about so much linebreeding on this 1313 hen and he said that he had been routinely sent pedigrees and photos of the progress and that he was quite pleased with the direction that they were headed, even though Chan was not really a big believer in linebreeding or inbreeding rollers. Here amongst my years of accumulation, I have a VHS tape that was shot of these birds in 1989 that shows the entire stud of birds, including I think, all original 15 pairs, as well as a mixed age kit on the wing that show some really explosive performance almost from the get-go. I hope to upload some segments of that video to YouTube in the coming months once it can be converted to a digital format.

The first birds that Spurling phased out in his breeding program were all the Black and Dun Badges in 1990, some of which I was able to obtain. I once asked him why that was and he remarked that even though some were pretty good in the air, they did not quite fit into his long term breeding goals. A decade or so later, when he decided to move to Europe, I was lucky enough to get quite a large percentage of his stud. These are the ancestors of the birds I have here.




A gathering of famous roller breeders at the home of J. Leroy Smith. From left to right:
Ray Perkins, Chan Grover, Les Manz, J. Leroy Smith and W.H. Pensom 

In his book, "The North American Roller" (1995), which details some early roller strains that were kept in North America prior to the arrival of the Pensom imports, Spurling explained how these birds had first come about, noting that: "Another famous fancier was Les Manz of NJ. He is also the mentor of one of our modern day old timers, none other than Chandler B. Grover of Elk Grove, CA. Manz was a proficient writer on Rollers, and respected by many. Les Manz's strain of rollers hold their origin to a group of Whittinghams brought to Camden, NJ in 1925 by an Englishman named Hargrove. Hargrove immigrated to work at the Easterbrook Pen Factory in Camden, NJ. A fancier named Bygraves secured a good many of these Whittinghams from Hargrove, and upon his death in 1929, Manz purchased the entire stud from Bygraves' widow. Then in 1934, Manz along with a fancier named Frank Sinclair purchased the entire outstanding stud of A.C. Karp of Cleveland, Ohio.  Karp was a top-notch fancier, and an authority on Rollers. At that point, Les Manz blended the Whittinghams with the Karp birds even though they were totally different in type. The result was a family of Reds, Yellows, Blacks, Duns, Bronzes, and Sulfers-all marked birds.  Upon Manz's death in 1976, his breeders went to a Mr. Chas. Hubbs and the kit birds went to Chan Grover. Twelve years later, Chan Grover later sent the author the remnants of this old family. Three birds I bred down from these are solely responsible for my entire family of Red and Yellow Whitesides. I believe I had in my possession the very last living Les Manz bred bird in existence. This was an Odd-Eyed Red Spangle Cock NIRC #3732-76. He was a favorite among my loft visitors and they referenced him as "Old Odd-Eye". He produced into his 13th year, and at age 17 escaped from my breeding loft where he resided as a foster parent".

Regrettably, you can't get copies of the book anymore because it has been out of print for over 20 years.

An article by Charlie Hubbs entitled "My friend Les Manz and how I turned his Karp and Bygraves families into Mottles and Whitesides", gives some additional details about the history of these birds: "When I was 8 years old .....  Les Manz was in the process of moving with his young wife to a new home located here in Riverside, New Jersey. Mr. Manz was actively in the process of moving into his new quarters and as he was very short on space for all of his pigeons; Les offered, and then gave me approximately 20 pigeons, mostly Frank Buehnor’s family that he purchased from Cleveland, Ohio. This was the very first time I ever met Les Manz. As luck would have it, Les Manz moved into a home-located just two streets away from me. We became fast friends and we would visit each other’s homes often. We were together nearly every Saturday and Sunday, as my parents would permit. ....  In 1934, Les Manz and Frank Sinkleris  .... bought out the famous Arthur Karp of Cleveland, Ohio. The Arthur Karp Birds were the old flying type of pigeon that would fly literally all day long, fly high, and which rolled deep. Les Manz decided to keep all of the Reds and Yellows, while Frank Sinkleris kept the Blues and Blacks from this Karp family. .... The Karp family of pigeons is a very high-strung breed. I can remember placing them of the loft roof for the beginning of their training process, to let them get accustomed to their surroundings. They would try to fly, only to land about, all scattered in the yard. We would run around the yard trying to catch them and place them back onto the loft roof. Repeatedly, we had to chase down and put the young birds back on the loft roof. I am quite sure we provided many hours of entertainment for our neighbors. After a few days of this training, I would let them out and they would all stand in line on the very edge of the roof, waiting for the least little sound or movement that would spook them and send them scurrying up into the air. Being the very high-strung pigeons as they were I would constantly loose a number of them. Les also purchased another family of pigeons from an Englishman named Joseph Bygraves from Camden, New Jersey. These pigeons were the Whittingham strain of pigeon. Bygraves would never sell any of his birds, but because of their friendship, he did give Les a few birds from his very exclusive family. Les eventually purchased Bygraves entire family of pigeons after Mr. Bygraves passed away. Bygraves always flew his Whittingham family differently from the way Les did, and the way Les taught me to fly my pigeons. I saw Bygraves fly his family of pigeons many times through the years, as Les would take me to Bygraves house to watch them fly and learn about Bygraves birds. Bygraves would always keep his birds hungry; so hungry indeed that if you threw a few grains of feed those pigeons would fight wildly over the seed, watching the kernels bouncing from pigeon to pigeon, before it was eventually eaten. Bygraves would also fly his pigeons several times in a day. Conversely, Les would release his family of pigeons once daily and they would fly literally all day long and fly very high. Les, the genius that he was with rollers, decided to cross the two families together, the Karp and his newly acquired Bygraves birds. I have received many of these crosses from him through the years. To my amazement, it was a beautiful sight to watch them in the air. The Karp when crossed with the Bygraves have become 100% easier to handle. The pigeons kitted very well together and would fly for hours with plenty of roll, even making breaks, which I never have seen from the Karp birds when Les flew them solely. ....  My best friend and mentor Les Manz passed away in the winter of 1976. I remember clearly, when he called me on a Monday to come to his house and take possession all of his flyers, as he could no longer take care of them. Les has fallen on the ice three times the previous week and was very ill. I told Les I would hold his birds for him until spring when he would probably feel better. Les said no, that he was not going to get any better. Les passed away the end of that week on a Saturday. During the week, just before his death, actually it was the same day I took possession of Les’ fliers, He also asked me to crate up all of his breeders and then asked me to take them all over to his brother Russell who lived nearby, which I promptly did. I have the same original blood family of birds that Les gave me through out the many years in my Mottles.  ... While speaking with my friend Chandler Grover, he stated he was interested in taking Les’s flyers, so I shipped them all to him in California".

Like other North American Highflying Rollers, these pigeons were selected for a different standard than Birmingham Rollers and should not be confused with Birmingham Rollers even though they have some similarities to them. They are two distinct, but related breeds. They are very deep rollers and will fly high and for long periods of time. If handled corrected, it is not unreasonable for them to fly non-stop to 6 to 8 hours on regular basis during which they periodically exhibit very long rolls of 50, 75 and 100 plus feet at a time. They are mostly Recessive Reds or Yellow Spangles or Selfs, as well as Black or Dun (dilute black) Badges. All of them have a very deep, rich color.

The late Joe Quinn and Steve Roth, both of Ohio, compiled a book called "The Search For Those Fabulous Whittinghams". It is a two volume set composed of their years of research and correspondence on the rollers that were popular before the introduction of the Pensoms, as well as on the conflict that arose as a result of the Pensom importations. Included are dozens of old articles, old photos, as well as copies of letters from the Whittingham family, James Graham, Arthur Karp, Bob Evans, Bill Pensom, Chan Grover and others. It is a hell of a story and I highly recommend it, even though some of the old letters may really ruffle some feathers and challenge your view of Roller history! Copies are available from Foy's Pigeon Supplies.